Choosing the right sunscreen for your family can be so confusing with some containing nasty chemicals and others leaving us all greased up! Host Amelia Phillips speaks with Dr Scott McGregor, Skin Cancer Physician and sunscreen formulator to find out the best sunscreen for us and our kids.
Below is an unedited transcript of the podcast episode:
There are a few things that are guaranteed to stress. My mornings out and one of them is putting sunscreen on my kids as we bundle out of the house. They hate it. I hate it. , they run away because it’s things. I chase them. I get cream all over their clean uniforms. They’re white, they’re crazy. And then I wonder what these chemicals are doing to them.
You know, I’m always thinking, Do I really need to do this? Every single day they wear a hat. They’re indoors most of the day, Come on. But with skin cancer being the third most common cancer in Australia, and with my sun damaged skin as a constant reminder, the voice in my head says, Yes, you must. But surely not all sunscreens are created equal.
Are just so confusing.
This is healthy. Her with Amelia Phillips, our skin is our largest organ, yet every day we cover it or we should cover it with sunscreen and we want our kids to do the same. And some sunscreens have nasty endocrine disrupting chemicals in. So which is doing us more damage, the sun or the cream Here to help me understand what makes the best sunscreen is Dr.
Scott McGregor, skin cancer and cosmetic physician and also the founder of We Are Feel Good Sun Care Range. Thanks so much for joining me today, Dr. Scott. Hi Emilia. And uh, thank, thank you for having me. This is, um, Certainly I’m something I’m very passionate talking about and uh, I’ll try and make it interesting and uh, answer all your questions.
Oh, it, it is so fascinating. I mean, cuz for us moms, it’s actually a double whammy. We’re not only responsible for our own skin, but that of our kids. And trying to get out of the house with everyone creamed up is just so hard. So tell me, how important is it for us to wear sunscreen every day? Short answer is extremely important.
Um, I knew you were gonna say that, . I’ll just give you a little bit of background first behind why I feel so passionate about this. Um, as you said, I’ve, I’ve worked in skin cancer and. Cosmetic sort of medicine for nearly 20 years now. I’m also a lifelong surfer and I’ve, I’ve grew up outside, grew up on a farm.
I’ve got two daughters who both surf. My wife is a surfer, so we’re all outdoor people. So, and I’ve also had two non-melanoma skin cancers myself at a relatively young age. So it’s really been a lifelong sort of passion for me or life, a work life long passion for me to. To avoid this problem. And what I’ve, what I’ve noticed in my daily, you know, noticed over the years in my daily work as a skin cancer doctor especially, is, um, I’ll, I’ll see, you know, expats who come back for skin chats.
Skin cancer checks who’ve been living in Europe for years, or Singapore or Hong Kong, and they might be in the early twenties. I’ll do a skin check on them. And their skin is literally five, 10 years younger than the equivalent Australian. Oh, tell me that. Look. So unfortunately, you know, we, we live in the best country in the world, but the downside, or one of the downsides is that it’s a, it’s a really harsh environment and, uh, You know, we’re not only talking about the potential for skin cancer.
One of my passions is people need to be educated around the, the potential for skin aging. And, um, you know, your skin is your biggest organ. We have to look after it, but it’s a complicated science. And one of my jobs I feel on a daily basis is to. Make sure people are educated and understand the differences between different sorts of, um, sunscreens and also the what potential harm they can be getting from the sun.
So as far as everyday use goes, as a, a mom and a woman, I find it pretty straightforward to put a 50 plus on my face every day. But what about our kids? When in my family we ride our bikes to school, which is maybe 10, 15 minutes in the sun, they wear their hat. Recess and lunchtime. I know lots of my friends don’t bother putting sun cream on their kids faces and arms.
Would you recommend, would you put it on your kids when they go to school? Yes. Well, my, my kids will attest to that. , you related to my story about running around chasing children with a handful of sunscreen. Absolutely. And as a sunscreen company, that’s part of our job is. To make sunscreens that feel good to wear because, you know, there’s, there’s no good.
Having the best sunscreen in the world is the one that you want to wear. Okay? So I’m not fussed about the brand or the, the actual ingredients. For me, it’s all about wearing a sunscreen. Obviously there’s ingredients to avoid and we’ll talk about that, but wearing a sunscreen every day is so important and, um, one of the big problems in Australia is.
It, it literally takes, so when your UV index is above three, and most of us understand what the UV index is when it’s above three, which is most days in Australia, at least in Perth, Sydney, you know, Southern Australia, you, you need to be protected. So, and as little as 10 minutes of exposure to unprotected skin on face and arms.
On face and arms. Yep. Uh, neck as little as 10 minutes is enough to cause your skin cells to start to, to damage. So we are literally talking about the DNA and your cells starting to damage into age. And 10 minutes is not much. I mean, that’s a walk to school, that’s driving in the car, hanging out the washing, doing jobs around the house.
So, Uh, unfortunately in Australia, we really need to be putting it on, You know, you brush your teeth, then you put your sunscreen on before you leave home. Um, and that’s for office workers, for school kids, anybody who thinks they’re gonna be spending time outside. If the UV index is above. Three. And a great little tip is that I only found out recently is on most, uh, weather apps on your phone.
It will show you what the UV index is for that day, at the present time, and what it’s predicted to get to. Absolutely. There’s some, there’s some very good apps out, out now and, um, but look, to be honest, I. And again, this is where especially parents with kids get caught out. You know, you might be at a, a sporting day on the weekend, the UV index is two, but if you are out there all day, uh, well, at least for a few hours watching sport, you should be protected.
So, I, I, I personally, for sport and for, you know, even if the U UV index is below three, I’m putting sunscreen on my, my kids. As a nutritionist, what I struggle with is balancing sun care with adequate levels of vitamin D exposure. You know, approximately one in four Aussies are vitamin D deficient, so how can we balance these two conflicting needs?
Yeah, so this is a really interesting point, Amelia, and slightly controversial. Yeah, it’s a tough one. It’s a tough one. I, I, I had my vitamin D levels tested and I live in a really sunny, beachy suburb, and I had them tested in August and they were at 79 or something like that, and my integrated GP was like a.
I would like that to be higher. Yeah. So look, and, and as you say, it’s, it’s a really common problem and vitamin D deficiency can lead to all sorts of things. I mean, bone health, even mental health, it can affect. So yes, it’s, it’s really important. But, so look, there has to be some balance, obviously for a start to get enough vitamin D in Australia, in most parts of Australia.
Studies show that you need to expose an area of the size of your face to the midday sun about three times a week for 10 minutes. Okay? So that’s, that’s enough UVB raise to, to maintain your vitamin B levels. So it’s hard to imagine that most Australians aren’t getting enough incidental sun to stimulate their vitamin D.
And, and just to explain, uh, vitamin B helps convert vitamin D in your skin. We do get some vitamin D in our diet. Um, so if you are, if you are lacking vitamin D, then oily fish and um, eggs and so forth, is that certainly ways to replace it. But, but sun’s very important. So there’s a few other things to this.
The darker your skin tone, tone. Probably the more sun you need to get. But deficiencies are quite common, and it’s hard to explain for a lot of Australians how they’re not getting enough sun. The, the, the other important point to make is that there’s recent studies been done by the Cancer Council of Australia.
Have shown that sunscreens are not relevant as far as vitamin D deficiency goes, and the, the theory behind, Well, the thinking behind that is that first of all, uh, sunscreens don’t block all the UVB rays. So even if you’re outside fully covered with sunscreen, you’re still getting some Vitamin D conversion.
The other point is if you’re wearing sunscreens, then you’re outside, so you’re gonna be getting more sun. Exposure. So look, we encourage people to get outside as much as possible, but wear sunscreen. The bottom line is vitamin D deficiency it. It’s a real thing. It’s manageable, it’s treatable, but it’s not gonna kill you like skin cancer.
Exactly right. And look, as, as we’ve said before, it’s your biggest organ. Your skin damage is irreversible once it’s done. Uh, so you’ve really gotta look after it. But we, we, we want to encourage people to get outside and enjoy this beautiful country and, and, you know, be fit and healthy, but, um, cover up. So look at.
Most people we see vitamin D deficiency in Probably don’t spend enough time outside for a start, but there are certainly people obviously like yourself who, who I’m sure exercise outside and do things. You, you may still be vitamin D deficient, unfortunately, may just need to take a supplement. Yeah, and look, I’m a real advocate in once a year getting your bloods done and vitamin D is not a stock standard test.
So I always think at the end of winter when your levels will be at their lowest, get your annual blood done, get it, you know, everything checked from your zinc to your, you know, full blood count. Ask them to add vitamin D to the list. And that along with getting your skin checked at the. Intervals, which can be every six months to every two years, depending on, on your skin type, then at least you can draw the boundaries yourself.
Yeah. And decide, okay, well I probably do need a little bit more safe exposure. And like you say, as long as you’re getting outdoors, even if you have got some cream on that can, you know, still give you adequate levels of vitamin. Absolutely. And look, if you’re outside, I mean do, do your walks and your swims.
Try and do it before eight 30 in the morning. I don’t wear sunscreen before eight. I certainly do after eight and probably four 30 in the afternoon. Again, it depends where you live in Australia, but for Perth and probably Melbourne, Sydney, that’s about right. So if you are out walking before eight in the morning and after four 30 without sunscreen on, I mean we’re a hat, but.
You’re gonna get enough vitamin D stimulation from the sun. So, well, let’s talk about which sunscreens to use. Now. I know you have founded We are feel good sun care range, which I love. They’re beautiful. Thank you. And so you are right across the r and d involved in developing sunscreen, which I can imagine is no easy feat because I must have 30 different tubes in my cupboard, or 28 of which sting my kids’ faces.
So can you. Let’s dive down into the best sun screens to use. So firstly, can you explain the difference between chemical creams versus barrier creams? This is where, this is where it starts to get interesting and a little bit sciencey, I’m afraid. And, uh, oh, we love sci, We love sciencey. Nerd me out. Hit me with some words.
I can’t, uh, I won’t be able to spell . Yeah, so look, I mean, first of all, we, we make both kinds of sunscreens, so physical or mineral sunscreens, and we also make non mineral or what is probably commonly known as chemical sunscreens. So hopefully I can give a, give an unbiased opinion on where and when and who should be using what.
But one of the things I’m very passionate about is actually making sure people are informed and educated around this subject. It’s a, it’s a really, it’s, it’s quite complicated, but there’s lots of myths out there. In the sunscreen world, there’s words like natural, organic, chemical, non-chemical. They’re actually very confusing and probably shouldn’t be used in the sunscreen world.
So, for example, the, the first myth, um, Physical barrier sunscreens. I think you just use the, the term barrier versus chemical sunscreens. So when we talk about physical or barrier sunscreens, most people I think are talking about zinc based sunscreen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the myth is that. Zinc has this magic shield that it puts on your body and the light hits it and it reflects off.
Unfortunately, that’s not true. And you don’t absorb, You don’t absorb. I, I always understood that your skin is less able to absorb the particles because they’re larger. Hmm. Unfortunately, it’s not true. And, and look, this is, this is one of the myths which even a lot of skin doctors still perpetuate and, and it’s something that we need to talk about.
Zinc is an amazing UV filter and it’s a really good product to use. We make a zinc only product, so I’m not saying it’s a bad product, but we just need to understand that all sunscreen filters work the same way. Uh, zinc based products actually reflect about 5% of the raise that hit them. So you imagine the rays hit your skin and bounce off.
That’s about 5%. As with other UV filters, the other 95% is actually absorb. Into the filter, so the zinc particles absorb the UV rays, turn it into heat, and then that dissipates. That’s exactly how so-called chemical filters work as well. So they basically work the same way. They all, they all sit on the top layer of your skin and perform the same function.
So it’s just, in my opinion, it’s, we just need to get our heads around the fact that UV filters all pretty much work the same way. So don’t be put off by the chemical versus physical thing. There’s obviously other lot, lots of other things we need to look at with these, but that’s, that’s one myth.
Probably should be put to bed.
I just always understood that, you know, I understand they work in a similar way, but the. of it being absorbed by their skin and metabolized by the body. I know that some of the chemical ones ha have been proven to be endocrine disruptors. So if anyone’s got any endocrine disorders, these. Endocrine disruptors, which there are millions of them out there, can actually contribute to that.
So I guess my, I would wanna know, as someone that has had an endocrine disorder before, I would not wanna be putting chemicals on my skin that are gonna potentially be an edc. Yeah, ab, absolutely. So this is obviously another. Big area of discussion on the internet and when people are looking at all sorts of things they’re putting on their skin, look that there is some evidence for a couple of the, uh, so-called chemical UV filters.
Oxybenzone is probably the one that gets the most press. There is some evidence in. Some studies that it, there may be an effect on your hormone system and, and, and you know, that may be real. And as a company, we have decided not to use Oxybenzone, for example, because you know, the evidence is starting to accumulate that there may be a possible interaction there.
But we, it’s gotta be put in perspective that these studies are looking at, um, oxybenzone, for example, you’d have to use a swimming pool’s worth of sunscreen every year for 10 years for it to register. So it’s like a lot of things in, in science, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta relate it to the real world. I’m not saying I, I don’t use oxybenzone, my kids, but it’s, it’s gotta be put in perspective.
There’s very little evidence for the other so-called chemical filters. That might manipulate hormones, but as a sunscreen company, we’re constantly getting asked questions about this for all sorts of different chemicals used in sunscreens and uh, moisturizers and so forth. The other thing to point out, I think is, is just a basic, basic fact that, um, the word chemical is, uh, sort of banded around as something bad.
Um, water and air are chemicals. , to put it really simply. So we’ve gotta be, we’ve gotta be really careful what we’re talking about and, um, yeah, look, be educated around this. What, what are we talking about when we talk about chemicals? So what would, uh, when we’re, when we are deciding what cream to use, what would the top.
Chemicals be that you would avoid, like oxybenzone. And what would the top active, Cause we’re talking active, when you look on the back of a sunscreen, you’ll see it says active ingredients. What would be the two that you recommend would, that you would use and the two that you would definitely steer clear of?
Oh, look, there’s, so the, so the ones that just, just be clear of are probably the, that’s the easy one. Uh, oxybenzone, I would steer clear of. And most people have probably heard of Par. Mm-hmm. , Um, P a ba. Yep. And the other one is Parabins, which are a group of chemicals, but they’ll be called something, something Paran.
The main reason to avoid these, in my opinion from a science point of view, is that they, they. But tend to be more irritating to the skin. So definitely avoid them in, uh, in the young and the, and the, and all those three are probably becoming less and less common. Oxybenzone still probably under the widest used, uh, ingredients in the sunscreen world.
Mm-hmm. . I personally would avoid it because the hormone issues not the biggest issue. For me, it’s probably more the fact that people tend to react to it a bit more. But the hormone issue is obviously significant as well. But pars and parabens are the other things. Yep. And then to reassure people, Australia’s obviously, or we are, The countries at the, the cold face of skin cancer and sun damage.
Now for the obvious reasons, but we’re also at the cutting edge of research. I was gonna say that where I’ve heard that we are the absolute pioneers and leaders in sun care development. Like Go Aussies. I think that’s, I mean, it makes perfect sense, but it’s, it’s great to hear that as well. Well, let’s talk about 30 plus versus 50 plus.
My hubby is all about the 50 plus. I’ve got a whole bunch of 30 pluses. He’s like, Why are you using 30 plus? Your daughter has red hair and white skin and freckles use the 50 plus. Do you have a thought about the two? Yeah. So, so just to explain, the SPF rating is it’s, it’s a measure of the amount of UVB raise that hit your skin.
Okay. And UVB is the burning raise. So the SPF rating is a measure of how long it takes your skin to. So when they test sunscreens, they literally get a panel of, uh, probably university students and stick them under UVB rays and see how long it takes them to, to burn. gosh, doesn’t sound very things that uni students do for a few bucks, huh?
That’s right. That’s right. So an SPF 30 sunscreen, it basically takes 30 times as long for your skin to burn than it does without s. And 50 is oxy 50 times. So that’s, that’s one way of looking at it. So, So 30 SPF 30 sounds pretty good, but the other way of look at it is SPF 50 blocks, probably 99 to 98% of UVB Ray spf.
30 blocks about 93%. So you’re not blocking an extra. This mass isn’t very good. Solid day 5%, five to 6% of ray. And that’s, that’s significant when you’ve got millions and millions of rays hitting your skin. So, so there, there’s definitely a difference. I, I would say that for going to the office, perhaps walking to school, an SPF 30 is fine because you don’t really need, um, especially if you, if you go into the office each day, you don’t, you don’t really need.
The extra protection that an s SPF 50 gives you, but certainly for outdoor activities, beach, um, exercise, use the SPF 50, it’s a little bit of extra guarantee that it’s not going to, you know, if you do rub it off, there might still be a little bit of protection there. Uh, so certainly fifties, but SPF 30 has, its.
Okay. And what about spray versus cream? Cause I know that, uh, some of the sprays, for example, in cooking, a lot of the oil sprays that we using cooking have propellants added to them, and I’ve heard that with some of the sprays for sun screen, you can ingest the particles, which isn’t so good for health.
What are your thoughts on spray versus cream? It’s a big no for me, I’m afraid. And we’ve, we’ve certainly looked at bringing out spray sunscreens in our company. But look, unfortunately the research, and again, the Cancer Cancer Council have bought out some good research in the last 12 months on this. Um, it, the problem is the application, so actually putting it on the skin, the one study showed that you actually had to use half a can.
Of a 200 mil to, to get the same coverage you would with a, uh, a normal cream sunscreen. And this is because you’re really not too sure how much is going on. As you say, it’s, it’s going everywhere. You’re breathing it in, it’s drifting in the wind. So there’s just that uncertainty about, uh, whether you’re actually applying properly, whether you’re getting enough on.
inhalation of chemicals obviously is not a good thing. Um, I can’t tell you the science around that. I’m not too sure. There’s many studies that have shown that’s a problem, but that’s probably not something you wanna be doing. Yeah, Yeah. Makes sense to me. What about Reef Safe? That’s another word I’ve been seeing splashed across a lot of my 30 sunscreens I have at Home.
Reef Safe is obviously around helping our environment and not putting. Is it the chemicals that actually leech off when you’re swimming or is it something different to that? Uh, yeah, so, so I, I guess this stems from whatever we’re putting on our skin leeching off and, uh, drifting and settling on coral reef systems and causing bleaching.
Again, look at, it’s, it’s quite a controversial area. This is certainly something that we need to be aware of and we need to, in all areas of our life, we need to be looking for re. Products. So Hawaii and Florida in the states were the first two governments to ban certain compounds. So they decided that there was enough scientific evidence that, um, oxybenzone and Octa oxide, the two they banned, they decided there was enough evidence to.
To ban them from use in sunscreen so they, they’re being phased out. So that’s another, another whammy for oxybenzone. But there’s, there’s really not much evidence that other sunscreen filters, you know, there’s as much evidence that zinc can harm reef systems as there is for plenty of the other chemical sunscreens, uh, filters.
So, look, I mean, be aware of it. Definitely choose oxybenzone free. Sunscreens. So look for sunscreens, which say they’re reef safe. But my concern around this is the green washing that’s possibly going on if you talk to marine ecologists about this, uh, sunscreens, not even in the top 100 of concerns when it comes to reef damage.
So, As I say, be be aware by, by Reef safe. But I think we need to focus more on what we’re using in our homes, What the other things we put on our skins, what we pour down our toilets and our sinks. Yeah. Okay. So there, there is a concern that, that this, this is a bit of a distraction from some of the real issues.
Okay? At least if you are doing Reef safe, you know that it’s probably. Not going to have the oxy zone in it, which is a step in the right direction. Yeah. Look, definitely go reef safe, but um, I guess focus on reef safe in every area of your life. Yep. So the other thing I wanted to ask you was the correct amount for application, and I’m thinking about arms here.
Is it a 20 cent piece that you rub in your hand that you pretty much put on your arms? How do we know we’re applying enough? Yeah, so basically the, the rules are. Fully grown adult, and you’ve gotta extrapolate that down to a one year old. Um, we should be using for our whole body about 35 mills, which is a fair bit of sunscreen.
So, you know, 200 mil bottle. Yeah. It’s, it’s basically a shot glass, or not quite a shot glass. It would be like half a shot glass. Yeah. Well, so five mills is a teaspoon. Yep. So there you go. And your average sunscreen bottle, I guess is 200 mil bottle. You’re gonna get six or seven applications, but that’s for your whole body.
And look basically a teaspoon for your head and neck, teaspoon for each arm, front and back and your legs. I think if you’re gonna be spending time at the beach, for example, that’s, that’s not even enough. You, you’ve gotta make sure you’ve got good, really good coverage and it’s probably, probably a good opportunity for meters just to point out, there’s some really.
Tricky areas that we see skin cancers, even in young, like teenage girls in particular. So areas such as right up in the hairline. Um, so get your sunscreen right up in there, behind the ears in this part of the ear. Uh, so you’re just talking about the, the, those that can’t see , what Dr. Scott’s doing. Um, he’s just talking about the.
The wider part of your ear and actually behind your ear where my husband had skin cancer removed in the gap between behind your ear and your hairline as well, which you never even think about. There you go. So, uh, yeah, so there’s some, there’s some real sneaky places. So especially when you are applying sunscreen on your, your kids, get them in those little areas.
That area where we see, see a lot in, especially women who don’t wear hats, is wear your hair parts. Um, so that’s an area that’s totally unprotected. So you spent all day at the beach or playing tennis or whatever. That bit can get a lot of sun damage and potentially skin, skin cancer. So apply lots and apply.
Okay. Finally, for a mom who’s feeling overwhelmed by all the choices out there, we walk into the chemist and we are looking at this aisle at all these things staring back at me, the kids wanna grab the one that’s got pepper pig on it, but you are trying to not to grab that one. , sum up the three most important elements to look for in our sun care, and I’m gonna start with the first one.
Choose a 50 plus. Mm-hmm. . I’m gonna go for that one. . What would the other three elements be? Okay, so, so I think it’s, I haven’t actually said this yet, and we’re talking about babies and, and total is so, so certainly from zero to six or 12 months I’ll be looking for a zinc based sunscreen, and that is because zinc is probably the one chemical that’s least going to react to sensitive skin and obviously, Babies have very sensitive skin.
So in six to 12 months, find a zinc based sunscreen from 12 months onwards. It’s really the sunscreen that your kids will wear and you’ll wear. So as I said earlier, the best sunscreen after 12 months of age is this is the sunscreen that you’re gonna wear and want to wear, basically, and it’s not gonna be a struggle to put on every day.
So avoid oxy. Avoid pars and parabens, and I’ve gone past three, but there’s one final one, Alcohol-based preservatives and the other. The main reason for that is that they sting the eyes and can sensitize the skin as well. Thank you so much and I think that pretty much gets rid of about 28 of my 30 sunscreens that I have in my cupboard.
So I will be going home and, uh, chucking those in the bin and looking out for your fantastic brand. Uh, we all feel good, so Dr. Scott, thanks. That was really interesting. Thank you. My pleasure.
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